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"Why I preferred the Navy, from a culture POV."

I 90% agree, though in my experience with the artillery I was treated very well.

I preferred the navy so much after 21 years air force I switched DEU as soon as I was able to, just for a chance to get back to the coast and sail again. I could never set foot on an air base again, and not be upset... I didn't enjoy my time working with the fixed wing world.
 
In the army, culturally, they truly believe that if not combat arms you are there to only assist them and they view you as less than. Always.

Regimental Sergeant Major Bert Wilson:
Nobody's gonna put a medal on us. But get this straight - one job's as important as the next.
 
In army terms a ship is a crew served weapon system. All the crew are required to ensure the weapon system functions and fights. All the crew share the same risk as each other.
 
Interesting take. And I think he is generally in step, but looking at it with rose colored glasses.
 
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I worked with 1 Svc Bat in Germany in the 80's and that changed my view on Service Battalions by 180 degrees. I was deeply impressed with their professionalism and commitment to the mission.
 
I worked with 1 Svc Bat in Germany in the 80's and that changed my view on Service Battalions by 180 degrees. I was deeply impressed with their professionalism and commitment to the mission.
One of the biggest issues when it comes to respecting other occupations is the lack of exposure to what they do. Most people know what their job is, and how busy they are, but never consider other people to be as hard working, or as important. You see less of it in the navy, because you live, eat, and work alongside everybody else, but on a base the average person don't really interact with people outside their unit often, or for long periods of time.

Even in Afghanistan, I never really interacted with RCD, PPCLI, or RCR guys on the same FOB as me. We all did our own things, and sat at our own tables when the cooks were serving fresh rations. On ship I interacted with all of the departments pretty much every day, even alongside.
 
One of the biggest issues when it comes to respecting other occupations is the lack of exposure to what they do. Most people know what their job is, and how busy they are, but never consider other people to be as hard working, or as important. You see less of it in the navy, because you live, eat, and work alongside everybody else, but on a base the average person don't really interact with people outside their unit often, or for long periods of time.

Even in Afghanistan, I never really interacted with RCD, PPCLI, or RCR guys on the same FOB as me. We all did our own things, and sat at our own tables when the cooks were serving fresh rations. On ship I interacted with all of the departments pretty much every day, even alongside.

Don't take it personally... I'm willing to bet that none of the combat arms unit folks interacted with each other either ;)
 
Don't take it personally... I'm willing to bet that none of the combat arms unit folks interacted with each other either ;)
I was with a gun troop, and that's what I saw, everyone kept to their tribe. The gunners were great though.
 
One of the biggest issues when it comes to respecting other occupations is the lack of exposure to what they do. Most people know what their job is, and how busy they are, but never consider other people to be as hard working, or as important. You see less of it in the navy, because you live, eat, and work alongside everybody else, but on a base the average person don't really interact with people outside their unit often, or for long periods of time.

Even in Afghanistan, I never really interacted with RCD, PPCLI, or RCR guys on the same FOB as me. We all did our own things, and sat at our own tables when the cooks were serving fresh rations. On ship I interacted with all of the departments pretty much every day, even alongside.

That's very much a C&POs experience. But in the RCN there is a definite pecking order. The Log and Eng branches can speak volumes about this. Cooks are a bit separate as they are the face of the Log Br. Everyone sees them every day and and experiences their work. Clerks and Sup Techs aren't always seen, but I cant tell you their contribution to the battle space out paces what the galley provides, most of it just goes unseen and unappreciated.

I always found the main cave had non official but official tables for trades and departments. Mind you its been over a decade since I was a member of those messes.
 
That's very much a C&POs experience. But in the RCN there is a definite pecking order. The Log and Eng branches can speak volumes about this. Cooks are a bit separate as they are the face of the Log Br. Everyone sees them every day and and experiences their work. Clerks and Sup Techs aren't always seen, but I cant tell you their contribution to the battle space out paces what the galley provides, most of it just goes unseen and unappreciated.

I always found the main cave had non official but official tables for trades and departments. Mind you its been over a decade since I was a member of those messes.
Fair enough, I spent my time at sea as a Sgt, so I wasn't in the Cave. I did spend my entire career before that working on air bases, and army bases, so I can assure you things are not better there.

I still argue it's worse elsewhere, at least the Snr people on the ship understand the value of all occupations, I have been told by senior people my occupation isn't needed because they can get their information from Nav Canada, not realizing that the information they are getting is put in the system by my occupation...
 
Fair enough, I spent my time at sea as a Sgt, so I wasn't in the Cave. I did spend my entire career before that working on air bases, and army bases, so I can assure you things are not better there.

I still argue it's worse elsewhere, at least the Snr people on the ship understand the value of all occupations, I have been told by senior people my occupation isn't needed because they can get their information from Nav Canada, not realizing that the information they are getting is put in the system by my occupation...

I can really only speak for my branch. You are part of the Combat/Operations Dep and you work for the NavO, an NWO. You have some advantages, and some pull. You are represented by a top tier officer on the ship, in the dominant department.

Again, only speaking for Log, and specifically my Trade with some SMEness; its definitely different between the services and the cultures that we move between. I've had equal amount of head scratching moments with the RCN as I have had with the CA.

I think we would benefit from doing away with the "purple people eater" trades, and making them element specific. My feelings on that are well document on this forum.
 
That's very much a C&POs experience. But in the RCN there is a definite pecking order. The Log and Eng branches can speak volumes about this. Cooks are a bit separate as they are the face of the Log Br. Everyone sees them every day and and experiences their work. Clerks and Sup Techs aren't always seen, but I cant tell you their contribution to the battle space out paces what the galley provides, most of it just goes unseen and unappreciated.

I always found the main cave had non official but official tables for trades and departments. Mind you its been over a decade since I was a member of those messes.
Back in the day when there was the “2nd Sea Tour Lt” I lost the coin flip and became the Communications Officer vice the Deck Officer in Protecteur. Talk about a “pecking order”, Decks was a HOD while Commo was the Combat Officer’s bitch. Nobody ever said “Great Message File Today Commo!”, where as the Deck Officer (especially on the Tanker) was front and center with a lot of “attaboys” after a good seamanship evolution. On the other hand the NAVCOMMS work in a secure space with limited access.
Didn’t help things that my boss was a megalomaniac c***, the CO was spineless and the CO senile. It was a bloody nightmare.
I then went to Algonquin as the DeckO and I got to enjoy the good life!
 
I can really only speak for my branch. You are part of the Combat/Operations Dep and you work for the NavO, an NWO. You have some advantages, and some pull. You are represented by a top tier officer on the ship, in the dominant department.

Again, only speaking for Log, and specifically my Trade with some SMEness; its definitely different between the services and the cultures that we move between. I've had equal amount of head scratching moments with the RCN as I have had with the CA.

I think we would benefit from doing away with the "purple people eater" trades, and making them element specific. My feelings on that are well document on this forum.
That's a fair point, even in the purple world there is a lot of difference between how trades are viewed/treated. Met Techs tend to be employed in small dets, and work with planners/commanders, so we have a different experience than cooks, MMTs, etc.

@FSTO raised an interesting point about the Ops Dept though, there is a definitely a "pecking order", and Met is at the bottom, just below NAVCOMs. The folks in the mushroom farm look down on everyone else.

I also agree completely with breaking apart the purple trades, it creates new problems, but it solves many.
 
That's a fair point, even in the purple world there is a lot of difference between how trades are viewed/treated. Met Techs tend to be employed in small dets, and work with planners/commanders, so we have a different experience than cooks, MMTs, etc.

Ya, you guys get daily exposure to command teams and leadership organizations. My PO2 in 2 Gen Stores, not so much. Even when I was Snr Stores, the CO never wanted to be briefed by me, that was the job of the Log O. I spent a lot of time in COs flats pacing, and waiting to be summoned when invariably my Log O would reach crush depth.

@FSTO raised an interesting point about the Ops Dept though, there is a definitely a "pecking order", and Met is at the bottom, just below NAVCOMs. The folks in the mushroom farm look down on everyone else.

Even at the bottom rung of the Ops Dept, you're still in a higher pecking position than everyone else in Log or Eng.

I truly don't understand the preeminence of the mushroom farm.

As for NAVCOMs I am not sure I agree. They have/had a very powerful empire. At one point they were producing a way out of expected ratio number of CPO1s.

I also agree completely with breaking apart the purple trades, it creates new problems, but it solves many.

Agreed, everything has pros and cons. For this one, I just happen to think the pros out weigh the cons.
 
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Ya, you guys get daily exposure to command teams and leadership organizations. My PO2 in 2 Gen Stores, not so much. Even when I was Snr Stores, the CO never wanted to be briefed by me, that was the job of the Log O. I spent a lot of time in COs flats pacing, and waiting to be summoned when invariably my Log O would reach crush depth.



Even at the bottom rung of the Ops Dept, you're still in a higher pecking position than everyone else in Log or Eng.

I truly don't understand the preeminence of the mushroom farm.

As for NAVCOMs I am not sure I agree. They have/had a very powerful empire. At one point they were producing a way out of expected ratio number of CPO1s.



Agreed, everything has pros and cons. For this one, I just happen to think the pros out weigh the cons.

So what about the traditionally deep hatred of the 'Lower Decks' for MARS/NWO Officers?

I was impressed by the depth of feeling there talking to a few ratings in the past, some of whom left the CAF becasue the awful leadership ;)
 
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